Are there some topics we Christians should not discuss? Dr. Ken Birding, Ephesians 5:3 says, “But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you as is proper among the saints.” >> Now, I want to get your take on this passage because you’ve done a deep dive on this. But before we get your take, what are some different ways you’ve seen scholars address this? Yeah, I think most scholars would agree that he’s actually telling them to avoid something here. >> Okay. >> And so really the question that we have to deal with is like how does this work out in our in our current context? M >> is it really true that we really shouldn’t talk about certain things and does is does that mean that it’s a a blanket prohibition on this or are there some ways in which we can talk about the same things that we shouldn’t talk about in certain situations which is where I think we’re going to go. >> Okay. I suspect so. Now before we go there what is the context of what’s going on in Ephesians chapter 5 where Paul even makes this statement? >> Yeah. So Paul is actually in a section right here, chapters four and five especially, where he’s talking just about how to live out your Christian life. >> How to walk it out. That’s his key word here. So he’s talking about, you know, not having anger and not having bitterness and not grieving the Holy Spirit. That’s the end of chapter 4. In chapter five, he talks about, you know, walking in the light, walking in the truth, uh things like that. But he especially has a focus on what comes out of your mouth. So at the end of chapter four, he says, “Let no unh wholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only that which is for the building up.” >> And then he’s moving in this section especially to things that come out of your mouth that relate to sexual immorality. So that’s his focus. That’s the section that we’re in right here. >> Okay. So it’s not it’s not just random any context here. It’s about the words we speak and in particular sexual immorality. That’s right. So that kind of tailor what we talk about, how we talk about it. >> So tell us how you take this passage and why. >> Yeah. Well, I do understand this passage to be talking about that. If you look at verse three, which is the one that you read aloud, but immorality, >> that’s the Greek word porna. >> That’s kind of a general word for sexual immorality, not just adultery, but uh other kinds. Mhm. >> impurity, a catharsia, that can be like uncleanness of any kind. But in this context, because of the verses that are around it, it’s got to be sexual impurity. >> And then greed is what my translation says in front of me today, but it’s often translated as covetousness. That’s pleonexia. And it can be various types of things, but if you look at the verses that follow it, it’s probably sexual covetousness also. Kind of like the tenth commandment. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. That kind of thing. And one of the reasons we know that is because the next verse says, “And there must be no filthiness and silly talk or coarse gesting.” Verse five, there no immoral or impure person or covetous man who is an idoltor has an inheritance in the kingdom of God of Christ and God. And he and he’s got that in the immediate context. And whenever you read a passage, you’ve got to pay attention to the immediate context. So that’s that’s where I would start. It is probably talking about sexually immoral talk. And yes, there are certain ways in which we should never talk about >> these things. >> Okay. So he’s not making a point that we shouldn’t discuss these things or maybe preach on these things or have conversations about them. He’s talking more about a coarse sexual locker room type talk amongst Christians. Is that a fair distinction? Yeah, I think that that’s fair. Down in verse 12, he says, “It is disgraceful even to speak of the things that are done by them in in secret.” So there he’s saying it again. >> You can’t talk about these types of things. So I would think that is especially joking. So you don’t you don’t do joking about sexual things details not talking about you know specific details and um and probably not like imagining things rehearsing things with other people but I do believe that we should be talking about these things in general and in particular context. So we’re talking about social context here like you talked about locker room sort of joking >> and um there would be other things that would be analogous to that. Those are those are off off limits for us. We shouldn’t be talking about things like that and we do that a lot and we shouldn’t be doing that. However, like in a teaching context, in a uh counseling context, we ought to be talking about these in a general sense and to whatever level of specificity is needed. >> So, how do I know that that’s true? Okay, so let me just argue for it. Okay, 1 Thessalonians 4, >> he says, for this is the will of God. your sanctification that you abstain from sexual immorality. >> And he even he even uses like medium level specificity there. >> He says that each one of you uh controls his own body. So that’s kind of medium level >> specificity. You think about 1 Corinthians 5, >> he’s talking to them. He’s saying, “You guys are tolerating a man who’s living with his father’s wife, sleeping with his father’s wife.” And he’s u this probably his stepmother that he’s talking about there. But he goes he goes into an and he he goes into enough detail to say this is worse than what the Gentiles do. >> Unbelievable that they would be doing that. >> And then in 1 Corinthians 6, which is just the next chapter, he talks about not going to prostitutes because if you go to prostitutes, again, medium level specificity, you become one body with her. And so he is talking about things in a teaching context to warn them to stay away from things that are unholy and to pursue holiness in their life. >> See, this is helpful because a philosopher me when he says must not even be named among you. I’m kind of like you’re naming things that we’re not supposed to name. So clearly you don’t mean talk about it on one level. What you’re saying is there’s some wisdom we have to apply given the context, >> given the age what I might talk to my >> 13-year-old about might be different than my 21-year-old about versus a 5-year-old about. >> Absolutely. >> So, it’s really using wisdom and the manner in which we talk about stuff is honoring to the Lord and honoring others. Not so much that there’s certain things that Christians we just can’t talk about it. This doesn’t belong in church. That’s not the point of what’s being made here. I absolutely agree. That’s right. >> That’s great. So tell me why like why does this matter? Why is it important that we because I’ve seen this verse misused many times. Why is important we understand here what Paul is saying? >> Well, it might have something to do with the age that we’re living in. Uh increasingly people are talking openly about things that at least among Christians they wouldn’t have talked about in the past. So, uh, your listeners ought to talk to their grandparents and their great-grandparents and ask how open would people be talking about these things before even from our even from our pulpits when we’re preaching. Sometimes we just throw out things to try to make ourselves look cool and we probably shouldn’t do that. So, we actually need to take a step back some of us >> and be willing to actually control what comes out of our mouth. But on a teaching level, just like Paul did, we do need to address issues related to sexual immorality. is a very important issue in our day and age. >> Amen. Well said. And this is where wisdom is going to come into play because we can hold back too much, but we can also speak too much. So, being filled with the spirit, getting counsel from other people, speaking wisely, and maybe if we hear somebody say something that’s not completely over the top, >> give them the benefit of the doubt, go to them and just find out more what’s going on before we make a quick judgment. Any other lessons we should take away from this passage or have you made the case you want to make? >> No, I think that’s great. Thanks so much. >> Love it. Yeah. Well done.