So, Eric, are we supposed to hate our mother and our father? Because Luke 14:26, Jesus says, “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.” Now, obviously, we’re supposed to honor our parents. This is the first commandment of the 10 that’s between human beings, fifth commandment. And yet Jesus says we’re supposed to hate our mother and father. Now I want your take on this in a minute, but are there a range of passages where even some Christians will say, “Yep, hate your mom and dad now in light of Jesus.” Or is there a little bit more unimity on how we take this passage? >> Yeah. Unlike other really challenging passages, I’m not aware of any commentators that just say, “Yep, Jesus saying, “Hate those parents.” Yeah. especially in light of the fact that the Bible’s so clear on honoring your mother and father and loving even your enemies. And so the universal call to love people made in the image of God, especially those closest to you, especially among the household of God. So love has a priority among those closest to you in your family, in the family of God. And so I I’m not aware of any commentators that say, “Yeah, Jesus is teaching hate here.” But we also shouldn’t back off the strength of what he’s saying here. And what he’s doing is making a relative statement. >> He is preparing his followers in this passage and throughout time for persecution for being disowned, rejected by family members when they decide to follow Jesus. And so he’s he’s about to talk about taking up your cross and following me and the difficulty of being a true disciple. Now for most of us, we haven’t had to say goodbye to our earthly families >> when we became followers of Jesus. But throughout the history of the church, a lot of Christians did. Most of the apostles in some way lost friends, family members, their whole cultural standing as Jewish believers who are now following this Messiah that many thought was a false messiah. And so Jesus was saying, relatively speaking, >> your love and devo devotion for me needs to so outweigh your love and devotion for even those you love most that it’s as if it’s hatred. >> That that it’s a relative statement. He he’s saying there needs to be a weightiness to your devotion to me that leads to a willingness to say goodbye to your earthly family because you choose to follow me. It’s it’s Jesus saying to the man who says you just let me bury my father before I follow you. And he says, “Let the dead bury their dead.” It sounds so harsh, >> but he’s just saying the calling to follow me so outweighs all your other loyalties, allegiances, and devotions that it it needs to appear even as hatred, relatively speaking. >> There’s arguably some precedent for this in the Old Testament, like in in uh I think it’s Exodus 32 where there’s a sin against the Lord and it’s like even if your family will not turn to the law, >> That’s right. >> you follow the Lord. So there’s this sense of God is supreme above our family which in a culture like that that your name and your identity was your family was a pretty radical thing. >> Yeah. >> Now I guess my next question is how do you know it’s a relative statement? What gives you confidence that you’re not softening this down? >> Because Jesus so constantly preaches to love people and to love love the world, love those who hate you. because it the the whole teaching of the New Testament so emphasizes self-sacrificial love for other people that you’ve got to understand it in the context of all of those other love commands throughout the New Testament and throughout Jesus teaching. So you don’t say, “Well, Jesus just sort of went in hate mode here and and forgot about all those other passages.” He’s making relative statement. It it’s about ultimate allegiances and the command to love even those who hate you has to be considered in light of this command to to hate your family >> in light of what it means to be a true disciple. That’s what he’s saying. It it’s it’s similar to Paul saying, “I sought to know nothing among you but Christ and him crucified.” >> Well, he knew lots of things about What do you mean, Paul? you taught about marriage and how to relate to the government and and what what holiness looks like and Timothy should take a little wine for his stomach. What what do you mean he only taught the cross? He’s saying relatively speaking, that’s what I so emphasize that everything else has no meaning apart from the cross. He he he’s saying this is so weighty and everything else needs to be understood in light of it that I’m going to make an a hyperbolic statement. I think this is hyperbole. Jesus is >> Okay. That’s what I was wondering because he uses hyperbole in other passages clearly like John six about eating his flesh and drinking his >> blood or gouging out your eye. Yeah. >> There you go. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, what might this look like? I mean, flesh it out for me a little bit. If you were preaching on this passage and you’re trying to give some application, what would you tell people to make sure that they’re sufficiently hating their mother and father? And by the way, it also says your brother and sister, even your own life in a sufficient way that you’re relatively loving God. >> Well, I would start with Jesus when >> he he’s inside the house and his family is outside asking him to come out because they think he’s lost his mind. They’re completely not understanding who their sibling, who their brother is, and who their who their son is. Mary’s there. And and they say, “Your family’s outside. They want you to come out.” And he says, “Who’s my family?” >> The one who does the will of God is my family. And so as important as earthly family is, Jesus puts a massive priority on the family of God because >> because my relationship with you as a brother in Christ, if I have a brother who doesn’t love Jesus, you are far more of a brother to me than he is from Jesus perspective. >> And so that identity among the people of God means that our earthly family ultimately pales in comparison to it. Now, it’s glorious when your earthly family is also your your heavenly family. That’s a beautiful thing. >> But Jesus puts it in perspective. And if and if I were teaching this on this campus, you know what I’d do? I’d take a little field trip over to Fineberg Hall >> where our Talbot chapels meet because Charles Fineberg was a Jew who trusted Jesus as the Messiah and was disowned by his family. >> And that’s what hating your family looks like. choosing Jesus as the Messiah and the family of God in that sense knowing you’re going to say goodbye to your earthly family because they’re going to disown you. And so so we have this monument on our campus to what this passage means when you walk by Fineberg Hall where our our chapel is that we meet for Talbot. >> I didn’t even know that by the way. I’d never heard that. I walked by Fineberg almost every day. I had no idea his backstory. I had both of his sons as professors at Trinity, >> uh, John and Paul, and they would recount that loss of grandparents. So, when their father made that decision, >> he made the decision for his family that his kids weren’t going to have grandparents in their life. I mean, they had them, but but as followers of Jesus, they lost them. >> That that’s powerful. Last question on this passage. Reading Jesus say, “Hate your father and your mother,” is jarring to you and me. But I wonder if we miss how radical it is because we live in a culture that says, “You be you.” Yes. >> Your family doesn’t define who you are. Yes. >> And when Jesus says in like Mark 3, the passage you’re talking about, they think he’s out of his mind. He redraws identity lines not horizontally but vertically. That’s right. >> As striking as this is to us, do we miss how radical in that day people had been like, “Are you kidding me, Jesus?” >> I think so. I I think the individualistic mentality of our day makes all kinds of things hard for us to understand biblically, like inherited sin. You know, the typical American finds that appalling that I would in any way inherit something ultimately from Adam, but even from my own parents. My Asian students don’t have as hard a time with that. My students from African backgrounds don’t have a hard time with that. My Italian-born students don’t have a hard time with it. they get it, you know, and so so some cultures just have a hard time with with biblical ideas and this is one of them. And in a typical American context, there’s such an individualistic spirit that that you’re encouraged, you do you all the time. But to to know you’re going to be disowned and follow Jesus anyway, >> in that context, it meant the world. You lost everything when that was a decision you made. And in our context, typically for Americanb born raised people, I I don’t think you you get that as well. >> This is built in to what it means to follow Jesus. >> Absolutely. Absolute ultimate devotion and allegiance >> with no competitors. >> Great take.